RE: Re: Re: Re: Re: What if we killed the mailing list altogether


#1

Please keep privacy in mind before making such a decision.

I’m trying my hardest to avoid having to log in to Google for privacy reasons - and now just for one important group, ALL my Web browsing would be attached to my full name.

Kevin Keane

The NetTech

http://www.4nettech.com

Our values: Privacy, Liberty, Justice

See https://www.4nettech.com/corp/the-nettech-values.html

-----Original message-----
From: John Keiser jkeiser@getchef.com
Sent: Wednesday 26th November 2014 10:05
To: Adam Jacob adam@getchef.com
Cc: Brian Hatfield bmhatfield@gmail.com; Nathen Harvey nharvey@getchef.com; Julian C. Dunn jdunn@getchef.com; chef@lists.opscode.com
Subject: [chef] Re: Re: Re: Re: What if we killed the mailing list altogether…

Let’s rephrase then :slight_smile:

We’re moving to Google Groups shortly, that’s absolutely the right decision. Is it worth moving to Discourse later?

Discourse has mailing list support, according to its website, so we need not lose anything at all by using it. I’ve used Google Groups before, but not so much Discourse. Here’s the relevant advantages over Google Groups I see just looking at the feature list:

  • Markdown support, with consistent, rich formatting
  • Embeddable on the Chef website, so new visitors can feel they are still under the same roof
  • Single Sign-On
  • Sticky posts
  • @ summoning
  • Trust system to identify people who consistently help
  • Muting, flagging, etc.
    I haven’t figured out any disadvantages here–if there are any Discourse features that make it worse, or if there are any Groups features that Discourse is missing or does worse at. Help me out?

–John

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 8:13 AM, Adam Jacob <adam@getchef.com mailto:adam@getchef.com > wrote:

I’m not blocking groups :slight_smile: I was just asking. :slight_smile:

On Nov 26, 2014 8:09 AM, “Brian Hatfield” <bmhatfield@gmail.com mailto:bmhatfield@gmail.com > wrote:
I’m also perfectly happy with a standard mailing list. In particular, other open-source projects that I care about also have mailing lists in a similar form, which makes it easy for me to filter and follow projects that I am interested in.

In my opinion, there is a surprising difference between tools-that-send-emails and an honest-to-goodness mailing list.

Your project requirements sound sane, however. Google groups is a common answer, as mentioned earlier; in fact, I thought we were already using Google groups because I wasn’t paying attention.

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 11:04 AM, John de la Garza <john.garza@rallyhealth.com mailto:john.garza@rallyhealth.com > wrote:
I’m a fan of keeping the mailing list.

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 10:19 AM, Nathen Harvey <nharvey@getchef.com mailto:nharvey@getchef.com > wrote:

On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Adam Jacob <adam@getchef.com mailto:adam@getchef.com > wrote:

And just moved all of our conversation over to Discourse?

If only because it’s questions like this that have killed the migration in
the past. We get into analysis paralysis about which tool should we migrate
to. We analyze the pros and cons of each. Try some of them out and then
give up on the project because, while a priority, it doesn’t have a high
enough priority to maintain our attention span.

Our goals in this project include:

  • Migrate off of an in-house managed mail list system
  • Provide “mail in” and “mail out” on a reliable, easy-to-use platform
  • Provide an archive of previous mail list content

I’m all for debate and looking at alternate solutions but this will prolong
the migration process and may even stall it out completely again.

There is a proposal on StackExchange [0] for a Chef group. As of this
morning, it still needs 30 more questions with a score of 10 or more to move
on to the next phase. Help get behind that if you think it’s appropriate.

Google groups, with all of it’s challenges, is stable, reliable, and
easy-to-use.

My vote is to move forward with the approved RFC [1] and I think we’re on
track to complete that work by the end of the calendar year.

http://www.discourse.org/ http://www.discourse.org/

Adam

[0]: http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/77609/chef http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/77609/chef
[1]:
https://github.com/opscode/chef-rfc/blob/master/rfc028-mailing-list-migration.md


#2

Discourse supports a non-SSO login as well :slight_smile: You can pick one of your
cloud thingies, or you can create a Discourse-specific login/password.

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Kevin Keane Subscription <
subscription@kkeane.com> wrote:

Please keep privacy in mind before making such a decision.

I’m trying my hardest to avoid having to log in to Google for privacy
reasons - and now just for one important group, ALL my Web browsing would
be attached to my full name.

Kevin Keane

The NetTech

http://www.4nettech.com

Our values: Privacy, Liberty, Justice

See https://www.4nettech.com/corp/the-nettech-values.html

-----Original message-----
From: John Keiser jkeiser@getchef.com
Sent: Wednesday 26th November 2014 10:05
To: Adam Jacob adam@getchef.com
Cc: Brian Hatfield bmhatfield@gmail.com; Nathen Harvey <
nharvey@getchef.com>; Julian C. Dunn jdunn@getchef.com;
chef@lists.opscode.com
Subject: [chef] Re: Re: Re: Re: What if we killed the mailing list
altogether…

Let’s rephrase then :slight_smile:

*We’re moving to Google Groups shortly, that’s absolutely the right

decision. Is it worth moving to Discourse later?*

Discourse has mailing list support, according to its website, so we need
not lose anything at all by using it. I’ve used Google Groups before, but
not so much Discourse. Here’s the relevant advantages over Google Groups I
see just looking at the feature list:

  • Markdown support, with consistent, rich formatting
  • Embeddable on the Chef website, so new visitors can feel they are
    still under the same roof
  • Single Sign-On
  • Sticky posts
  • @ summoning
  • Trust system to identify people who consistently help
  • Muting, flagging, etc.

I haven’t figured out any disadvantages here–if there are any Discourse
features that make it worse, or if there are any Groups features that
Discourse is missing or does worse at. Help me out?

–John

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 8:13 AM, Adam Jacob adam@getchef.com wrote:

I’m not blocking groups :slight_smile: I was just asking. :slight_smile:
On Nov 26, 2014 8:09 AM, “Brian Hatfield” bmhatfield@gmail.com wrote:

I’m also perfectly happy with a standard mailing list. In particular,
other open-source projects that I care about also have mailing lists in a
similar form, which makes it easy for me to filter and follow projects that
I am interested in.

In my opinion, there is a surprising difference between
tools-that-send-emails and an honest-to-goodness mailing list.

Your project requirements sound sane, however. Google groups is a common
answer, as mentioned earlier; in fact, I thought we were already using
Google groups because I wasn’t paying attention.

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 11:04 AM, John de la Garza <
john.garza@rallyhealth.com> wrote:

I’m a fan of keeping the mailing list.

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 10:19 AM, Nathen Harvey nharvey@getchef.com
wrote:

On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Adam Jacob adam@getchef.com wrote:

And just moved all of our conversation over to Discourse?

If only because it’s questions like this that have killed the
migration in
the past. We get into analysis paralysis about which tool should we
migrate
to. We analyze the pros and cons of each. Try some of them out and
then
give up on the project because, while a priority, it doesn’t have a
high
enough priority to maintain our attention span.

Our goals in this project include:

  • Migrate off of an in-house managed mail list system
  • Provide “mail in” and “mail out” on a reliable, easy-to-use platform
  • Provide an archive of previous mail list content

I’m all for debate and looking at alternate solutions but this will
prolong
the migration process and may even stall it out completely again.

There is a proposal on StackExchange 0 for a Chef group. As of this
morning, it still needs 30 more questions with a score of 10 or more
to move
on to the next phase. Help get behind that if you think it’s
appropriate.

Google groups, with all of it’s challenges, is stable, reliable, and
easy-to-use.

My vote is to move forward with the approved RFC [1] and I think
we’re on
track to complete that work by the end of the calendar year.

http://www.discourse.org/

Adam

[1]:

https://github.com/opscode/chef-rfc/blob/master/rfc028-mailing-list-migration.md


#3

On Nov 26, 2014, at 3:13 PM, Kevin Keane Subscription subscription@kkeane.com wrote:

Please keep privacy in mind before making such a decision.

I’m trying my hardest to avoid having to log in to Google for privacy reasons - and now just for one important group, ALL my Web browsing would be attached to my full name.

Google groups does not require a google login, or any use of the web app. You can sign up entirely through email and use it like a normal mailing list.

–Noah